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Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Dog etiquette question
If a dog clearly consents to me petting him - like it was totally Mr. Puppyface's idea in the first place - should I still be asking his human's permission?
I appreciate being asked, mainly because one of our dogs is a little nervous around children.
If I'm asked I always, always say yes. It just warns me to take precautions if necessary.
That said, I never have a problem with someone getting all gushy over my pups. So if you were to kneel down and pet them and coo at them and completely ignore me, I wouldn't mind.
So it's possible there might be a situation where the dog goes up to a stranger or a strange child all "HI! Will you be my friend?" but the interaction could still end up making them nervous or something?
If my dogs are on leash I prefer people to ask before they pet them. Part of being the "leader" is having them follow directions. They socialize when I permit them to, play when I permit them to, and obey when I expect them to. I know it sounds anal, it probably is. I expect a lot of them but I think that's why they're generally so well-behaved. An owner might not obect to the interaction but you don't know what (if any) rules they're trying to establish or maintain unless you ask. Having said that if they're off leash ie. at home or at a dog park it's a different story and pretty much a free for all :)
Re: can a friendly dog bite a child the answer is absolutely, especially if the dog feels uncomfortable and cannot flee (ie. the child is restraining the dog in a hug or headlock).
Just for a different perspective, I have well-trained dogs, people always comment on how good they are, but I don't subscribe to the "they socialize when I permit them to" school of thought. I understand it, but I don't think it's always necessary, depending on the dog.
IMO, it's important to have control over your dog, but it's not necessary to exercise that control at every potential interaction.
Also, I answered the question for you, not for a child. When it comes to children, I do supervise more closely. But you asked about your petting Mr Puppyface.
This all reminds me of another question I have: in general, if the dog and I both want to play but the human is making the dog sit, should that be interpreted as I should stop attempting to engage the dog? (From a "How can I not annoy people or break unwritten rules?" perspective, not a "How can I get to pet a dog?" perspective.)
I always assumed that if the human interrupts our interaction that means I should back off, but then I once had this lady in the elevator sit her dog, so I backed off, then after the dog stares hopefully at me for a bit she says to him "Not everyone wants to pet you, you know." And I totally wanted to pet him and hug him and squeeze him and call him George! I just thought that because she made him sit and stop interacting, she didn't want the interaction to happen.
I think in that case it's polite to ask and go with what the human wants.
That woman might have been preventing jumping or other obnoxious behaviour - the dog may be trained to accept love and squeezes from a sit position. But you're right that many people would be using the sit to end the interaction. So I guess then I would ask.
One of my dogs is a therapy dog so it's critical that she is 100% reliable and obedient when she's on leash, and I can't allow her to approach people unless she's invited. If she's on leash she's "on duty", period.
When she's off leash (which is most of the time) she knows it's her time to run and greet and play and roll in the dirt or whatever.
I think what it comes down to is if a dog is on a leash it's best to ask. Even if the dog is well behaved and it doesn't seem "necessary", the handler/owner will appreciate it. Hope that helps!
@L-girl: Don't know his name IRL. I'd probably end up calling him Mr. Floppy-ears b/c he was kind of beagley. I have a bad habit of giving dogs undignified nicknames.
@Dharma Seeker: Do therapy dogs have a distinctive harness or something so you can tell by looking that they're working dogs, like guide dogs et. al. do?
Not unless she's "on duty" ie. in a hospital, retirement home or a youth detention center (this is our current placement). She can interact with people if she's on her leash but only after she's given permission. When she's on leash she needs to follow instructions 100% of the time. If she can initiate contact/play that's self-rewarding behaviour and she'll inevitably reward herself for not listening to me.
My other dog is a good example as well. She's smaller so my mom always encourages her to jump up to say hello. I'm (still) trying to get her to sit when greeting people. Consistency is critical to achieving the desired outcome. In this case she sits for me when I walk in the door but she tries to jump up on other people which I think is really inappropriate even though she is small. I'm afraid I've digressed a bit :)
11 comments:
I appreciate being asked, mainly because one of our dogs is a little nervous around children.
If I'm asked I always, always say yes. It just warns me to take precautions if necessary.
That said, I never have a problem with someone getting all gushy over my pups. So if you were to kneel down and pet them and coo at them and completely ignore me, I wouldn't mind.
So it's possible there might be a situation where the dog goes up to a stranger or a strange child all "HI! Will you be my friend?" but the interaction could still end up making them nervous or something?
If the dog initiates the contact and is clearly saying "pet me pet me pet me" then I wouldn't ask, I would just pet.
Without dog initiation, then yes, I'd always ask.
If my dogs are on leash I prefer people to ask before they pet them. Part of being the "leader" is having them follow directions. They socialize when I permit them to, play when I permit them to, and obey when I expect them to. I know it sounds anal, it probably is. I expect a lot of them but I think that's why they're generally so well-behaved. An owner might not obect to the interaction but you don't know what (if any) rules they're trying to establish or maintain unless you ask. Having said that if they're off leash ie. at home or at a dog park it's a different story and pretty much a free for all :)
Re: can a friendly dog bite a child the answer is absolutely, especially if the dog feels uncomfortable and cannot flee (ie. the child is restraining the dog in a hug or headlock).
Just for a different perspective, I have well-trained dogs, people always comment on how good they are, but I don't subscribe to the "they socialize when I permit them to" school of thought. I understand it, but I don't think it's always necessary, depending on the dog.
IMO, it's important to have control over your dog, but it's not necessary to exercise that control at every potential interaction.
Also, I answered the question for you, not for a child. When it comes to children, I do supervise more closely. But you asked about your petting Mr Puppyface.
This all reminds me of another question I have: in general, if the dog and I both want to play but the human is making the dog sit, should that be interpreted as I should stop attempting to engage the dog? (From a "How can I not annoy people or break unwritten rules?" perspective, not a "How can I get to pet a dog?" perspective.)
I always assumed that if the human interrupts our interaction that means I should back off, but then I once had this lady in the elevator sit her dog, so I backed off, then after the dog stares hopefully at me for a bit she says to him "Not everyone wants to pet you, you know." And I totally wanted to pet him and hug him and squeeze him and call him George! I just thought that because she made him sit and stop interacting, she didn't want the interaction to happen.
I think in that case it's polite to ask and go with what the human wants.
That woman might have been preventing jumping or other obnoxious behaviour - the dog may be trained to accept love and squeezes from a sit position. But you're right that many people would be using the sit to end the interaction. So I guess then I would ask.
Was the dog's name George?
One of my dogs is a therapy dog so it's critical that she is 100% reliable and obedient when she's on leash, and I can't allow her to approach people unless she's invited. If she's on leash she's "on duty", period.
When she's off leash (which is most of the time) she knows it's her time to run and greet and play and roll in the dirt or whatever.
I think what it comes down to is if a dog is on a leash it's best to ask. Even if the dog is well behaved and it doesn't seem "necessary", the handler/owner will appreciate it. Hope that helps!
@L-girl: Don't know his name IRL. I'd probably end up calling him Mr. Floppy-ears b/c he was kind of beagley. I have a bad habit of giving dogs undignified nicknames.
@Dharma Seeker: Do therapy dogs have a distinctive harness or something so you can tell by looking that they're working dogs, like guide dogs et. al. do?
Not unless she's "on duty" ie. in a hospital, retirement home or a youth detention center (this is our current placement). She can interact with people if she's on her leash but only after she's given permission. When she's on leash she needs to follow instructions 100% of the time. If she can initiate contact/play that's self-rewarding behaviour and she'll inevitably reward herself for not listening to me.
My other dog is a good example as well. She's smaller so my mom always encourages her to jump up to say hello. I'm (still) trying to get her to sit when greeting people. Consistency is critical to achieving the desired outcome. In this case she sits for me when I walk in the door but she tries to jump up on other people which I think is really inappropriate even though she is small. I'm afraid I've digressed a bit :)
she sits for me when I walk in the door but she tries to jump up on other people
I love that! She's totally adapting her approach to her audience! She's picked up that you want her to sit, but everyone else is like "Oooh, puppy!"
I think I was about 12 years old before my communication skills were that sophisticated.
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