Wednesday, March 09, 2022
Knix Catalyst: a full-support sports bra that doesn't hurt!
Sunday, October 10, 2021
Bra back pain braindump
Saturday, October 02, 2021
If your bra elastic is too tight, stretch it over the back of a chair
Friday, April 12, 2019
Bra options for if Fantasie 4510 makes your back hurt
The Problem
After years of comfortably and happily wearing the same style of bra, (Fantasie 4510 in 34E) I suddenly started experiencing back pain caused by my bra digging into my spine.
Body Type
The Bra That Fits calculator puts me at a 34F. Most of the substance of my breasts naturally falls towards the outside, under my armpits. My ribcage protrudes under my bra band, to the extent that if the protruding part of my ribs were breasts, they would be B cups.
Bras I tried
Freya Idol AA1050, beige, 36E
On the first (outermost) hook, this bra is actually a bit too big based on how bras are supposed to fit theoretically. Sometimes this is comfortable, sometimes it's uncomfortable because the wires (sometimes - I haven't yet identified under what conditions) rest on my ribs rather than being tucked up neatly under my inframammary fold.
The second hook is a correct theoretical fit. Sometimes it's comfortable, sometimes it's uncomfortably tight and I like to loosen it.
The advantage of this bra is it gives me both these options.
The disadvantage of this bra is that the elastic at the very bottom of the band is "stiffer" than the rest of the band. In other words, if I put my hands on the elastic at the very bottom of the band and stretch it side to side, then move my hands up to the body of the band and stretch it with the same force, the body of the band stretches far more. This means I'm hyper-aware of the elastic (the part that's painted red in this picture - the picture only shows a portion of the bra, but I feel it all the way around) and sometimes always feel like it's slipping between my ribs.
I'm also more aware of the wires in this bra, even though their fit is appropriate. So, while it was the first bra I could wear comfortably, and is a lovely, high-quality garment, I've put it aside after arriving at the Fantasie and Simone Perele options below.
Freya Idol AA1050, white, 36E
After confirming that my first Freya Idol was a painless bra, I went to purchase a second one. I bought it on ebay from a retailer in the UK, because that's where the best price was and I had to spend so much on bras during this endeavour that I want to save money where I could.
Unfortunately, it didn't fit the same way as the beige one. The first hook on the white bra gave me the same fit (and maybe even a bit snugger) than the second hook on the beige bra, which, in combination with the same stiffness issues as the beige bra, rendered it useless to me.
Fantasie 4510, 36E
My bra fitter had stopped stocking the Fantasie 4510, citing a decline in quality. But I decided to see what my old style was like in my new size, so I ordered one online. The fit is correct from a technical perspective, it doesn't induce pain, but I'm still more aware of it than I prefer. I'm very aware of the part outlined here against my ribs. Sometimes I feel a tinge of something that's almost, but not quite, nausea when I wear it. I want to take it off after 6 hours. The problem isn't what I actually feel when I'm wearing it, but rather what I'm afraid I'll feel after wearing it longer.
I did not notice the decline in quality cited by my bra fitter in this bra - all these problems are a combination of the fit of the bra and the finicky needs of my back.
I'm keeping it in my arsenal because it still gives me the best line, but it's not for everyday wear.
Fantasie 4510, 38D
Since I thought the band on the 36E was a bit snug, I decided to try a larger band with a sister size cup. The 38 band is sometimes comfortable on loosest hook and other times has fit problem associated with a too-loose band. Sometimes it is comfortable on the middle hook and other times I prefer to loosen it. However, the cups are a bit too small, I bounce more in this bra, and the back arm of the wires is a bit further forward than I'm comfortable with.
This bra was manufactured slightly differently than the 36E (and than my previous Fantasie bras), in a way that looks a bit more crude and utilitarian, so that might be the decline in quality that my bra fitter was referring to. I can't tell if the difference is specific to the sizes or if my E-cup is just an older one and the D-cup is a newer one.
Fantasie 4510, 38DD
Further interneting suggested that, in the Fantasie brand, DD might be a size between D and E (I'd assumed it was a synonym for E, because Americans can be weird about letters beyond D appearing in their bra sizes). If that's the case, the 38DD would actually be the sister size to the 38D, so I decided to give it a try.
It turns out the cups of the 38DD are a bit too big - I don't fill them entirely, even though the cups are slightly smaller than those of my 36E. The fact that I'm not filling my cups is obvious when I'm not wearing a shirt, but a shirt conceals this.
The 38DD is the same style of manufacturing as the 38D.
I decided to keep one of the 38s in case I find myself in a situation where I need a magnificent line but can't handle the Fantasie 36E. It was a toss-up, but I decided to go with the 38DD.
Simone Perele Caresse 3D plunge bra, 36E
This was another option provided by my bra fitter. It doesn't give me as magnificent a line as the Fantasie and the Freya, but the band gently embraces my back without applying nearly as much pressure as the others. It's now my day-to-day go-to, with the Fantasie held in reserve for when my shape is particularly important.
The only disadvantage of this bra is it shows sweat stains at the slightest provocation, in the area painted red in this picture. Because of this, despite the beauty and comfort of the garment itself, it wouldn't be the right bra for if I had to look good without my shirt on.
Nevertheless, if I were only allowed to own one style of bra, I'd choose this one.
The unsolved sports bra problem
Alongside the Fantasie 4510 in 34E, I was also wearing Panache's wired sports bra in 34E.
I went in for a fitting of sports bras as well, and, after trying a variety of things, found the best fit was the same Panache wired sports bra in 36E.
However, this still exacerbated the back pain. I went and got refitted, and the best we could do was the same Panache wired sports bra in 38DD. Sometimes I wear it on the first hook, and sometimes I wear it on the second hook.
However, it isn't a proper fit, and I find myself wanting to take it off after a couple of hours. (My life doesn't require me to wear a sports bra for more than a couple of hours, but I still consider it an unacceptable degree of discomfort if I can't wear a bra all day without thinking about it.)
I still haven't found an optimal sports bra. I have to find out which Toronto bra fitter has a better selection of sports bras (or, barring that, a drastically different selection of sports bras) and get fitted again, and I haven't yet reached the point where the Panache is bugging me enough to motivate me to do that.
The bra fitters I worked with did repeatedly have me trying on various styles that pull over the head and then hook up behind the back (I don't remember the brands or styles), but I couldn't reliably do them up properly. So if you can do that style of bra up properly, that might be a fruitful direction to look in.
March 2022 update: The Knix Catalyst meets my needs! Full review here
Takeaway
- If the Fantasie 4510 is causing you pain by digging into your spine, try Simone Perele Caresse 3D plunge in a band size larger.
- The Fantasie 4510 in a band size larger fits, but isn't comfortable enough for all day wear. In two band sizes larger and one cup size smaller, it is comfortable but doesn't fit perfectly.
- The Freya Idol is comparable to the Fantasie 4510, but the sizing is unpredictable and the elastic at the bottom of the band feels uncomfortably conspicuous.
If the Panache wired sports bra is causing you pain by digging into your spine, try two band sizes up and one cup size smaller. But this is not an optimal solution and I have not yet found the optimal solution. (If you have it, post here!)- Sports bra update! The Knix Catalyst meets my needs! full review here
Saturday, February 16, 2019
The tight bra chronicles
I conducted experiments in the days that followed, and the correlation was clear: bras were causing the back pain. The pain worsened and worsened as I wore a bra, was immediately relieved when I unhooked the bra, but residual pain lingered even after I removed the bra.
Which is a problem, because I have the kind of body where my breasts hurt if I don't wear a bra!
The weeks that followed were consumed with bra shopping and bra testing and immersing myself in solutions to back pain. And finally, after much expense and despair, I think I have a bra paradigm that's not exacerbating the pain, and, in the absence of bras that are exacerbating the pain, I think my back is healing. I have gone as long as six hours without adjusting or thinking about my bra, and the residual pain is such that I wouldn't even be noticing it if I weren't obsessing about how my back feels.
And this makes me feel hopeless.
Not for myself specifically - all signs point to me, personally, being on an improvement trajectory. Rather, it makes me despair for all humanity.
This is such a stupid problem that, despite over a quarter-century of bra wearing, I could never have predicted. Yes, I could see with my eyes that the old bras were a bit snug, but before this has only resulted in unsightly bulges, not unprecedented back pain.
And then it took significant time and resources to fix - time and resources that were only available to me because of the privilege I have that is not available to everyone. Many people can't drop everything and spend hundreds of dollars on bras - for quite a few people, it may well be a choice between a bra that doesn't hurt and food for their family. (The single cheapest available bra that didn't exacerbate the pain was $60, but I needed a fitting from a store where the cheapest appropriate bra was $80 to figure out the approach to solve my problem.) Most people don't have a comfy work-from-home situation where they can switch their bra four times a day, or sit around slathered with Icy Hot or Voltaren, or take frequent yoga breaks. Many people might have to pick up extra hours at work wearing a painful bra to make the money they need to afford a non-painful bra!
What if I had to choose between feeding my children and getting a new bra? What if I were a refugee fleeing oppression with only the clothes on my back? What if I lived somewhere where I didn't have access to expert bra fitters, or the internet access and/or savvy to find out options on the internet? What if I didn't have a credit card that I could use for online shopping?
And this is just one of the zillions and zillions of stupid little problems that could come sneaking up and disrupt people's lives! Not to mention the zillions and zillions of much bigger problems that some people reading this are having, as they sit there saying "Ha, she thinks a bra that hurts is a real problem!"
***
It was a year ago this weekend that I had my head injury. My eyesight still hasn't completely resolved, and my vision therapy progress has been stagnant for so many months that I think it may never completely resolve.
The head injury falls into an annoying space that, before it happened, I never knew existed: an injury that hinders your quality of life, perhaps permanently, but isn't serious enough to count as a disability.
I'm fortunate enough to have disability insurance, so I figured if something happened to me, I'd be fine. If I can't work, I'd go on disability.
But I can work with the head injury, it's just harder, and takes more out of me so I have less left for the rest of life. If I wanted to take sick leave and my manager asked for a doctor's note (my employer's policy is that it's up to the manager's judgement), I don't know if I'd be able to get one. I certainly couldn't get the documentation necessary to go on disability. So, basically, life is harder, but not bad enough to be permitted a respite.
As I googled around the idea of back pain, I discovered that it's similar - not even as a question of whether it counts as a disability, but just for whether it counts as a problem.
Medical criteria for evaluating back pain ask about whether it affects your sleep, your range of motion, whether it affects your daily activities. This affects none of those. It's a 1 on the pain scale. Even WebMD doesn't think I need to see a doctor unless it persists for over 6 weeks (and they probably mean six weeks from when I stopped wearing bras that worsened the pain.)
And when I read up on what happens when you go to the doctor for back pain, the emphasis seems to be on pain management, not on solving the underlying problem. (There doesn't seem much that can be done to solve the underlying problem, except take care of yourself and maybe it will go away eventually.) It seems quite likely the doctor would say "It goes away when you take an Advil? Great! Keep it up!"
So this is another area where life becomes harder but not bad enough to be permitted a respite.
How many more things like this are going to happen??? And what on earth do people with real problems do?